Photo by Justin Cook
BY LILY REAVIS ’21
“I think that we’ve done an episode of ‘Criminal’ in pretty much every state in the country,” Phoebe Judge, host of the podcast “Criminal,” said in a phone interview in January. “It’s very important to us that there’s some geographical diversity in the stories that we tell.”
Next month, Judge’s podcast is coming to Massachusetts. Assisted by the podcast production crew, Judge will perform live at MASS MoCA in North Adams on Feb. 22.
“It’s brand new criminal stories that haven’t been on the podcast, but we’re telling them live,” she said. “There’s a lot of visuals and animations that go with them that we created for the show.”
At live shows, the “Criminal” production crew is able to use visuals to express stories to the audience, a sharp divergence from the traditional audio-only style of the podcast.
“During these live shows, we’re able to add another layer of interest (we hope) to these stories, by showing you the things that we see,” Judge said. She explained that live shows give “Criminal” an outlet to demonstrate the depth of research that goes into each episode.
Both Judge and the podcast’s co-creator Lauren Spohrer are celebrated journalists. Spohrer left her job producing for NPR to launch “Criminal,” while Judge moved from anchoring at WUNC. She said that the pair are diligent in bringing their research and fact-checking skills to the podcasting world.
“Criminal” was conceived by Judge and Spohrer several years ago, and has since been featured on “Best of” lists in TIME Magazine, The Atlantic and Rolling Stone, among others. Judge attributes the success largely to the dynamic she and Spohrer have fostered.
“I’m always trying to simplify,” Judge said. “I love simple things. I love simple sentences, I love simple constructions. And [Spohrer] is always trying to complicate.”
“I think [Spohrer] and I are constantly battling each other over the complicated and the simple,” she continued. “And I think why the show has been as successful as it has is because we find a happy medium.”
In 2019, after working on “Criminal” together for three years, Judge and Spohrer launched a second podcast, called “This is Love.” In stark opposition to “Criminal,” the new podcast focuses on how and why people love.
She suggested that the themes of love and true crime are potentially more closely linked than many would assume.
“When we came up with the idea for ‘Criminal,’ we were certainly interested in true crime, but interested in a million other things,” Judge said. “So three years after making ‘Criminal,’ we decided to try our hand at something new, and something as hard and difficult to conquer as the subject of crime, and we found that to be love.
“The same approach we’ve taken to the word ‘crime,’ we’ve done the same thing with the word ‘love,’” she added. “We try to find the surprising stories.”
“This is Love” has since released three seasons, with a fourth expected in the spring. Alongside producing two podcasts, the “Criminal” team is about to go on tour, with headlines from the United Kingdom and Ireland to the southern U.S. scheduled for spring 2020.
Judge emphasized the importance the team places on visiting new and different places. “We go to all lengths to do stories,” she said, explaining the trip she and Spohrer took to Yellowstone earlier this year. In her words, the pair found themselves “in the middle of a basically desolate and abandoned Yellowstone on the verge of a snowstorm,” seeking out a story.
These tough conditions don’t deter Judge, however, who is looking forward to the podcast’s upcoming live shows.
“It’s great to be able to look out and see the immediate reaction to these stories we’re telling,” she said. “So often, we’re here in the studio with our heads down, having no idea how these stories are impacting people.”
“When I record an episode, I have no idea whether people are laughing at the jokes that I make or preoccupied watching the television at the same time,” Judge said. “When I’m there on stage, I can look out and see if someone has fallen asleep; or someone’s talked to their neighbor; someone’s on their phone.”
Tickets for “Criminal” at MASS MoCA are currently on sale at the museum’s website. Student tickets cost $20, while general admission is $30.
According to Judge, the team’s podcasting days will continue for the foreseeable future, “not just making shows like ‘Criminal’ and ‘Love,’ but branching out to the next, new, exciting subject.”
“I think it’s incredibly important to constantly be pushing yourself,” she said. “No one wants to get bored. We are always thinking about the next, new thing.”
Photo by Juli Leonard