Pictured above: Springsteen (left) being greeted by President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama in the Blue Room of the White House in 2016. Image courtesy of Wikimedia Commons.
By Zoë Farr ’21
Managing Editor of Web
On Feb. 22, 2021, former United States President Barack Obama and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee Bruce Springsteen of the E Street Band released the first two episodes of their eight-part podcast series, “Renegades: Born in the USA,” on Spotify.
Spotify describes the podcast as, “a series of conversations between President Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen about their lives, music, and enduring love of America — despite all its challenges.” The series was originally born from the struggles the country was experiencing — and continues to face — with the COVID-19 pandemic and the Black Lives Matter protests that began in June. Sparked by the murder of George Floyd on May 25, 2020, by Minneapolis police officers, the Black Lives Matter protests became a central focus of American life, broadcasting the demand for liberty, equality and justice for Black Americans. Inspired by these protests, the initial two episodes of the podcast revolve around racism in the U.S.
The episodes are introduced through voiceovers recorded by Obama. During the first episode, Obama makes note of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, tying the predated episodes to the recent developments of 2021.
Prior to the more intense portions of their conversation, Obama and Springsteen detail the history of their friendship, beginning during Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign and strengthened when Springsteen performed at his inauguration in 2009. They credit their shared sensibilities rather than their similar lifestyles as the foundational blocks of their friendship, claiming that they’re both “outcasts” who felt isolated in childhood, which affected their outlooks on life. The easy banter between Obama and Springsteen cushions the reality of the conversation: a Black man and a white man speaking candidly about racism in the United States.
The friendship between the two is apparent throughout the entirety of each episode, as they trade taunts about their ages, swear a bit and continuously make each other laugh. The ambiance of the whole experience is easygoing, remaining true to the theme of “two friends shooting the breeze.”
They recorded each episode of the podcast sitting face-to-face at Springsteen’s converted farmhouse. To an extent, they really are just a couple of friends having a deep conversation surrounded by “a thousand guitars,” because one of them happens to be a rockstar and the other is a former U.S. president. They trade off the role of interviewer, which reveals their differences in professions and interpersonal strengths. Due to Obama’s previous roles in the public sphere, he commands the flow of the conversation a bit easier and comes across as a professional interviewer. Alternatively, Springsteen stumbles more, grasping for words in a more informal manner. This contrast adds an interesting element to their dynamic, and listeners follow along as they explore the line between formal and intimate.
The first episode, “Outsiders: An Unlikely Friendship,” focuses on comparing the differences in era, region and circumstances that affected each host’s childhood, specifically the racism both noticed despite their different backgrounds. Interspersed with musical interludes by Springsteen, the two probe subjects such as Springsteen’s teenage experiences during the Newark race riots of 1967, Obama’s background being raised by a white mother in Hawaii and the megalomania necessary to become a politician. While Springsteen mentions the unspoken rules surrounding interactions between Black and white people living in his conservative, majority-white hometown of Freehold, New Jersey, Obama muses on feeling isolated due to the scarce Black community in Honolulu.
The overarching theme of the episode cements the idea that both Obama and Springsteen are outsiders, whether that’s due to their ideologies or racism. Springsteen grew up as a white Roman Catholic in a town of white Roman Catholics in New Jersey. Feeling like you’re on a different wavelength than your community is different than being systematically oppressed for being a different race.
The second episode, “American Skin: Race in the United States,” focuses on the integrated E Street Band, which was led by Springsteen and his lifelong friend Clarence Clemons, a renowned African American saxophonist who died in 2011. Despite the close nature of their relationship, Springsteen addresses his own inability to fully understand Clemons due to his privilege as a white man.
The episode ends with insight into the song “American Skin (41 Shots)” by Springsteen himself, which was inspired by the shooting of Amadou Diallo by New York police officers on Feb. 4, 1999. The song plays in the background as the pair relate the shooting of Diallo in 1999 to the death of Floyd in 2020, highlighting the lack of improvement made by police regarding their treatment of Black Americans. Both Diallo and Floyd were unarmed Black men.
I was surprised by the demeanor of Springsteen in this episode, a product not of his time but of his own experiences. He was quick to acknowledge his shortcomings regarding his own privilege and offered insightful commentary about the duty of Americans to the betterment of the U.S., as long and winding as that road may be. Obama also speaks in a much freer manner than he was able to during his presidency, showing a side not often seen by the public. His stories regarding the racism he has faced and the effects it has left on his worldview are intriguing, especially when he compares his personal beliefs to his political stances.
I went into these episodes warily; every celebrity or politician seems to be making some form of media “in these unprecedented times,” so their messages can feel a little redundant. However, there is a weight added to this podcast by virtue of a former U.S. president’s involvement. These first two episodes being centered around violent examples of racism within the U.S., and being released during Black History Month is especially symbolic. This is amplified when considering that the trial of Derek Chauvin, the Minneapolis police officer who killed Floyd, begins on March 8, 2021.
There is an element of cliche to the whole experience. Springsteen does randomly strum his guitar throughout the episodes. There are a few playful pokes about how Obama is “The Chief” and Springsteen is “The Boss.” They rejoice in being outcasts who have found a kindred spirit in one another while their wealth and fame go relatively unmentioned.
There are also issues with the concept of “a conversational podcast,” especially when discussing the prevailing racism prevalent in the U.S. While encouraging dialogue is important, it doesn’t necessarily breed results.
While encouraging dialogues surrounding race is important, these conversations can be just that: conversations. It can create an endless cycle of dialogue where talking just leads to more talking. The creation of forms of media like this podcast can further cement the “Having Conversations Industrial Complex,” as they legitimize it, playing into the idea that talking is key. As a former U.S. president and a self-proclaimed activist, respectively, Obama and Springsteen should know: Initiating dialogue is important, whereas instituting change is imperative.
In the end, there is nothing particularly revolutionary about this podcast. While the stories the two exchange are interesting and the overall atmosphere is pleasant, there are no concepts introduced in this podcast that haven’t been explored before. It’s not overtly rebellious; it’s just two men talking. “Renegades: Born in the USA” is an interesting auditory experience that started off on a provocative note: attempting to disentangle racism from the perspective of a former U.S. president and a political activist-slash-rockstar. The series is available on Spotify, and they’ve got several more installments to dish out.